Reducing Alimony – Divorce Done Differently

Key Takeaways:

• In Pennsylvania, fault is not a factor when dividing assets. Alimony is determined by 17 distinct factors, with a focus on economic and equitable considerations.
• Courts often prefer dividing the marital estate to create a “clean break” rather than ordering ongoing alimony, as it can be painful for the payer to continue financially supporting an ex-spouse.
• Attorney Lenore emphasizes that mediation or collaborative law is often better than litigation, as it allows parties to process emotions and reach a compromise that works for everyone, especially when children are involved.
• If a court orders alimony and the payer fails to pay, the payee can file a petition for contempt. Consequences can include wage garnishment, asset attachment, or even jail time.
• While some may view seeking different types of support as a strategy to “milk the system,” the other perspective is that dependent spouses are simply trying to survive financially during a transition.

Video Title: Reducing Alimony – Dear Attorney Lenore

Video topic/focus: The video focuses on alimony and what determines how much someone is getting for alimony.

Video Description:

Have you ever had tons of practical questions (for yourself or someone you love) about the complex landscape of divorce, but thought they were too simple to ask?

Have you ever wanted to sit down and talk to a divorce professional who could break down the law in its simplest terms and make it clear, so that you could decide what’s best for you and your family?

Listen in as Attorney Lenore reads real questions from couples on the topic of mediation vs litigation. Learn for yourself as she answers questions with compassion (unlike many attorneys), competence, and skill.

Heartwarming Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Super friendly – Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Video thumbnail

Transcript: 

0:10
[Pamela] Dear Attorney Lenore,
0:11
My wife and I are getting a divorce.
0:13
She wants it. I begged her not to leave.
0:16
I did a little research and learned that I may have to pay her alimony if she leaves me.
0:21
Why should I financially support someone who doesn’t want to be with me?

0:29
[Lenore] That’s the lament that so many people have even when you’re dividing assets.
0:34
” I don’t want this! “
0:36
” I’ve worked really hard to get this. “
0:40
” Why do I have to share it with this person if they’re the ones that want the divorce and I don’t? “
0:48
Again, in states like Pennsylvania where it’s a no fault divorce …
0:53
that in dividing assets, fault is not a factor at all.
0:57
And again, with alimony in Pennsylvania, it’s one of 17 factors.
1:03
So, it really gets lost in the shuffle.
1:06
I mean, they are really looking at the economics and what would create
1:12
an equitable solution for these parties.
1:16
So a lot of times what would be equitable is….
1:20
” Well you made all of the money and “
1:24
” this person has enjoyed the marriage with you,
1:28
but maybe you’re just not somebody that is easy to live with. “
1:32
Maybe you’re… “,
1:33
like we talked about last week, ” a narcissist
1:37
” and it’s unbearable to live with you and I went out and “
1:41
” I’ve given up so much of my career raising the kids “
1:46
” or I didn’t pursue my career because “
1:50
” you needed me to to support you in whatever way till you got your education. “
1:54
There’s so many factors. That’s why there’s 17 factors to look at.
1:59
” I deserve some compensation for what I contributed to the marriage “
2:06
to allow you to make as much as you did.”
2:10
Now again, courts a lot of times will try and avoid alimony
2:15
and divide the estate in a way that would compensate
2:20
for what alimony would have been.
2:22
because it’s a clean break.
2:24
because it doesn’t feel so painful that somebody still has their hand in your pocket
2:32
when they’ve broken your heart.
2:33
And it just allows two people to go on with their lives.
2:38
So, yeah, it’s a bitter pill.
2:43
It is a bitter pill to swallow. And again, it’s different in every state.
2:48
I can only speak to Pennsylvania.
2:52
And the thing is this is why mediation or collaborative law is helpful
2:59
because it allows people to process all of these emotions,
3:05
to hear what the other person is saying,
3:08
to validate what each person is feeling,
3:12
and to come up with a compromise that works best for everybody.
3:17
Because at some point the these two people loved one another.
3:22
And if there’s children involved,
3:25
it might be the stay-at-home spouse needs some time to get back on their feet.
3:30
And in mediation or collaborative law,
3:34
they’re working together to create two homes that the child’s comfortable in.
3:39
And so litigation is really going to add fuel to the flame
3:44
with hurt feelings and betrayal and all of those things.
3:50
And it will make people not want to pay alimony even more
3:54
in a litigation situation.
3:57
But if you would take it to mediation or collaborative law,
4:01
people’s better angels and cooler heads can prevail.

4:06
[Pamela] Let me ask a question about that.
4:08
Let’s just go down a dark alley for a second.
4:11
The courts establish that the higher income earner has to pay the lower income earner alimony.
4:19
And then a year in to the alimony payments, the payor is like,
4:24
” I don’t want to do this anymore. “
4:26
” I’m not paying her or him another dime because they get upset about whatever. “
4:30
And they decide to stop paying alimony.
4:32
What happens?

4:34
[Lenore] Well, the payee, the person that should be getting the alimony
4:38
would file petitions of contempt with court
4:43
and the courts would hear the case.
4:47
And if the courts think this person is capable of continuing to make these payments,
4:53
they’re going to make them make those payments.
4:56
Either they’re going to garnish their wages,
5:00
or attach their property
5:03
or put them in jail.

5:06
[Pamela] Oh, okay. So,
5:10
if you have to pay alimony and the courts put that as an order or as a requirement,
5:17
you best to just go ahead and do that.
5:19
Even if you get upset, and you’re angry and,
5:21
you think that she or he should be getting that alimony,
5:25
it really is far more costly not to fulfill on that obligation
5:29
than it is to fulfill on it.

5:31
[Lenore] Most definitely.
5:32
I mean, you can appeal these things and
5:34
you can possibly file for reconsideration and to modify and all of those things,
5:41
but it’s a lot of time and energy.
5:44
And again, that’s why mediation and collaborative law is better. But also,
5:48
that is often why courts will forego alimony
5:54
in favor of a different division of the marital estate
5:58
because you don’t get into this stickiness of people not following through.

6:04
[Pamela] Yeah. Right. Right. Right.
6:06
And let’s not forget the impact
6:09
of this behavior on the children,
6:11
if there are children involved.
6:13
The fight over alimony before
6:17
and during
6:19
could be extremely stressful on kids
6:21
and affecting how they see the world, life, themselves,
6:25
and their future.

6:27
[Lenore] Oh, definitely. because they see the their parents stressed over money
6:33
and if they’re young kids,
6:36
they’re they will end up,
6:39
because little kids feel like they control the universe,
6:42
will somehow feel responsible
6:45
or even if they’re older
6:48
they may feel neglected like
6:51
” Why would mom or dad not pay alimony? “
6:55
or they may even think,
6:58
” Well, I have to side with the person with the deep pockets. “
7:01
” Otherwise, I’m going to end up like the parent that doesn’t get the money. “

7:06
[Pamela] And that is painful.
7:09
Painful for the recipient of alimony
7:12
if their child favors and sides with the payer of alimony.
7:17
That’s a very painful experience.
7:19
But while we we’re talking about children and alimony,
7:22
can you just distinguish for us alimony versus child support?
7:27
and then we’ll go on to the next question.

7:30
[Lenore] So, child support is
7:33
for food, clothing, and shelter for the child.
7:36
And most states have some sort of formulation that they
7:41
come up with a calculation
7:43
based on the parties incomes. and the number of children. and
7:49
the infinite wisdom of the legislature
7:51
that this is how much people should be spending on their children to support them
7:55
in these certain income brackets.
7:57
And so there’s an actual mathematical calculation for that,
8:02
unless it’s a really high income case.
8:06
And then there’s certainly a lot more discretion with that.
8:10
Alimony is payment between spouses after the divorce.
8:17
Now, in Pennsylvania,
8:19
there is something called spousal support,
8:22
and that’s what is paid between spouses before the divorce.
8:27
And there actually is a mathematical calculation
8:31
to determine what spousal support is.
8:34
But alimony in Pennsylvania is discretionary with regard to amount and term.
8:41
And the courts look to these 17 factors,
8:44
not 11, 17 factors,
8:46
to determine what is the appropriate amount of alimony, if any.

8:52
[Pamela] Okay. So, that sounds to me that if,
8:55
let’s just take a wife who’s the lower income earner,
8:59
between she and her spouse,
9:00
can be rather strategic here, depending on the state.
9:04
Okay, let’s say this state is Pennsylvania that awards
9:07
spousal support, alimony, and child support.
9:11
This spouse could very well say, “You know what?”
9:14
“I’m going to roll on out of this relationship.”
9:17
“I’m not going to divorce, but I’m going to”
9:19
“file for spousal support before I divorce him.”
9:24
“And then alimony, potentially, when we are divorced.”
9:29
“And then definitely child support to the max”
9:32
“that I can get based on the number of kids.”
9:34
I mean that could be a strategy that any person
9:38
who thinks that they have more of a….
9:42
they’ll probably get more favor. I hate to use that word.
9:45
That’s not a word you would use.
9:47
But in terms of them being the lower income earner,
9:50
there’s a strategy there that they could apply
9:52
that could maximize the money from their spouse.

9:57
[Lenore] Yes, that is possible.
9:58
Now, the interesting thing in Pennsylvania is…..
10:02
fault is something that can prevent somebody from getting spousal support.
10:09
So if there are false grounds that a party can prove,
10:14
say, you know, bigamy or adultery, insanity.
10:20
In certain cases, things like that,
10:24
if they can prove that there are fault grounds,
10:27
then spousal support won’t be awarded.
10:31
But there’s this hybrid stepchild called alimony pendente litee.
10:38
Alimony pending the litigation
10:41
and that can be awarded without regard to fault
10:45
because the goal of that is to put
10:48
parties on equal footing during the litigation.
10:52
The thing about that is that can’t run forever.
10:56
So the courts are going to push the divorce case forward.
11:01
And even if spousal support is awarded,
11:04
the court’s going to push the case forward because,
11:07
in a state like Pennsylvania,
11:09
after one year of separation,
11:12
a party can move to push the case forward
11:18
in the courts.
11:19
They can’t just sit on their hands.
11:21
One party can’t hold everything up by sitting on their hands.
11:25
Again I’m not sure what other states are,
11:28
but most states have
11:31
a situation where you can’t just
11:34
not let the other person move forward with the divorce.
11:37
There’s mechanism to do that.

11:40
[Pamela] So whether or not you want it,
11:42
you can’t hold it up once the paperwork has been filed by one party.

11:48
]Lenore] Yeah. Not forever.
11:49
For a period of time you can, but like in Pennsylvania it used to be two years.
11:55
You couldn’t force somebody to get divorced for two years from the date of separation.
12:00
But within the past five to seven years, they’ve changed that
12:04
to it being one year of separation.

12:07
[Pamela] Okay. And in that time, that one year,
12:11
it’s possible that a spouse could be receiving spousal support during that time?

12:16
[Lenore] Yes. Spousal-

12:17
[Pamela] Could they also-

12:19
[Lenore] or alimony pendente lite if

12:21
[Pamela] pendente? Okay.

12:23
[Lenore] If they don’t they qualify.
[Lenore]Go ahead.
[Pamela]Yes. Gotcha. I’m sorry,

12:28
[Pamela] but this is so exciting. I can’t believe you talk about alimony is exciting.
12:33
But they could also in that time be getting child support too, right?

12:40
[Lenore] Yes.

12:40
[Pamela] So again,
12:42
there is a strategy here If you really want to milk the system,
12:46
if you really want to stick it to your spouse as well,
12:50
it’s possible because there’s seems like
12:53
there’s ways around the system, so to speak.
12:56
Is that fair to say?

12:57
[Lenore] There’s ways to be strategic about it.
12:59
So, the independent spouse may feel like the
13:04
dependent spouse is milking the system.
13:06
The dependent spouse might be thinking,
13:10
“I can’t make it.”
13:12
then “He or she doesn’t want to give me anything.”
13:16
“I need to be able to get back on my feet, “
13:19
“and if this is what I’m entitled to under the system”
13:23
“to help me get back on my feet, “
13:25
“I’m going to do this for me and the and the kids”
13:28
“or just me.”
13:30
So, there are two sides to that.
13:32
The one side that’s paying is thinking
13:34
“That person’s milking the system!”
13:36
but the other person that’s getting the money is saying,
13:39
“I’m just trying to survive.”

13:41
[Pamela] Yeah.